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	<title>Comments on: Clueless faculty and uppity librarians</title>
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	<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2009/11/clueless_faculty_and_uppity_librarians.html</link>
	<description>a library weblog by Steve Lawson</description>
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		<title>By: Steve Lawson</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2009/11/clueless_faculty_and_uppity_librarians.html/comment-page-1#comment-114638</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 04:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/?p=18705#comment-114638</guid>
		<description>Thank you all for the thoughtful comments. I can&#039;t respond to everything in detail, but I feel like I should reply to Michael.

First, thank you very much for the background, Michael. I really didn&#039;t know any more about the Syracuse situation than I read in Inside Higher Ed., so this was enlightening. 

I hope that you are in the minority in reading this as a screed against clueless, Luddite faculty, or a vote against browsing and stacks. The &quot;clueless&quot; in the title (along with the &quot;uppity&quot;) is supposed to be a parody of how each side sees the other. My overall idea is that we need less of this extremism. As for &quot;self-righteous indignation,&quot; I was thinking mostly of some of the comments on Inside Higher Ed. Here&#039;s a great one: &quot;This current trend by librarians to destroy real education is appalling and must be resisted at all costs.&quot;

I don&#039;t dismiss browsing cavalierly. It&#039;s quite possible that if I were at Syracuse and knew all the facts, I&#039;d be on the side of the students who oppose the changes. But I do think that browsing the stacks increasingly misses larger and larger amounts of valuable material that either the library isn&#039;t buying or simply doesn&#039;t exist in paper at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you all for the thoughtful comments. I can&#8217;t respond to everything in detail, but I feel like I should reply to Michael.</p>
<p>First, thank you very much for the background, Michael. I really didn&#8217;t know any more about the Syracuse situation than I read in Inside Higher Ed., so this was enlightening. </p>
<p>I hope that you are in the minority in reading this as a screed against clueless, Luddite faculty, or a vote against browsing and stacks. The &#8220;clueless&#8221; in the title (along with the &#8220;uppity&#8221;) is supposed to be a parody of how each side sees the other. My overall idea is that we need less of this extremism. As for &#8220;self-righteous indignation,&#8221; I was thinking mostly of some of the comments on Inside Higher Ed. Here&#8217;s a great one: &#8220;This current trend by librarians to destroy real education is appalling and must be resisted at all costs.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t dismiss browsing cavalierly. It&#8217;s quite possible that if I were at Syracuse and knew all the facts, I&#8217;d be on the side of the students who oppose the changes. But I do think that browsing the stacks increasingly misses larger and larger amounts of valuable material that either the library isn&#8217;t buying or simply doesn&#8217;t exist in paper at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Dwyer</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2009/11/clueless_faculty_and_uppity_librarians.html/comment-page-1#comment-114636</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Dwyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/?p=18705#comment-114636</guid>
		<description>As a student at Syracuse, I would contest the characterization of the response against the outsourcing of library materials at SU as the &quot;self-righteous&quot; indignation of clueless, Luddite faculty. The response against SU&#039;s surprise announcement of its library &#039;master plan&#039; has been not only strong but also rational and measured. This response has been from faculty, yes, but in greater numbers from undergraduates, graduate students, alumni, community members and more than a few librarians.  

As for preparing students for libraries with fewer holdings--well, that&#039;d be difficult among ARL libraries, as SU ranks near the bottom in nearly every category (volumes held, budget, acquisitions, and--after significant layoffs last year--trained librarians on staff). These facts have been apparent for years, and are now coupled with diminishing space and resources dedicated to arts/humanities collections (down 73%) and increasing designated lounge and cafe space (up 350%, according to the published &#039;master plan&#039;).  This situation is not something that can only be opposed by those that do not understand the value of online archives or new media technology. Far from it.

Members of the SU community are of course concerned with the ability to browse (and outre though that might seem there are far too many advantages to that to dismiss it so cavalierly), but we&#039;re also interested in community investment, resource allocation, labor issues, and the long-term function of the university to the students, faculty, and the city of Syracuse. It is one of the ironies of this situation that skeptics of SU&#039;s library plans are criticized for not acknowledging the future, when it was a lack of long-term planning and investment on the part of the administration that got the university into this position in the first place. 

I understand your post above is more directed to the general state of libraries, and it&#039;s done with tongue in cheek at times.  In that regard it is admirable and well done. But as far as the SU situation goes, it misses the mark in many ways. The situation is &#039;tabled&#039; but the master plan, as of today, remains unchanged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a student at Syracuse, I would contest the characterization of the response against the outsourcing of library materials at SU as the &#8220;self-righteous&#8221; indignation of clueless, Luddite faculty. The response against SU&#8217;s surprise announcement of its library &#8216;master plan&#8217; has been not only strong but also rational and measured. This response has been from faculty, yes, but in greater numbers from undergraduates, graduate students, alumni, community members and more than a few librarians.  </p>
<p>As for preparing students for libraries with fewer holdings&#8211;well, that&#8217;d be difficult among ARL libraries, as SU ranks near the bottom in nearly every category (volumes held, budget, acquisitions, and&#8211;after significant layoffs last year&#8211;trained librarians on staff). These facts have been apparent for years, and are now coupled with diminishing space and resources dedicated to arts/humanities collections (down 73%) and increasing designated lounge and cafe space (up 350%, according to the published &#8216;master plan&#8217;).  This situation is not something that can only be opposed by those that do not understand the value of online archives or new media technology. Far from it.</p>
<p>Members of the SU community are of course concerned with the ability to browse (and outre though that might seem there are far too many advantages to that to dismiss it so cavalierly), but we&#8217;re also interested in community investment, resource allocation, labor issues, and the long-term function of the university to the students, faculty, and the city of Syracuse. It is one of the ironies of this situation that skeptics of SU&#8217;s library plans are criticized for not acknowledging the future, when it was a lack of long-term planning and investment on the part of the administration that got the university into this position in the first place. </p>
<p>I understand your post above is more directed to the general state of libraries, and it&#8217;s done with tongue in cheek at times.  In that regard it is admirable and well done. But as far as the SU situation goes, it misses the mark in many ways. The situation is &#8216;tabled&#8217; but the master plan, as of today, remains unchanged.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda French</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2009/11/clueless_faculty_and_uppity_librarians.html/comment-page-1#comment-114629</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda French</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/?p=18705#comment-114629</guid>
		<description>Good post. We talked about the Syracuse protest on the most recent episode of the Digital Campus podcast (digitalcampus.tv, episode 48, if you&#039;re interested). Mills Kelly made the important point that most libraries in Europe have closed stacks, and yet somehow research occurs there. The sentence &quot;it’s time to recognize browsing the local stacks as a pleasurable, useful activity, rather than a core research strategy&quot; seems therefore right on target. 

That said, I take the point about listening to the users. And so did Syracuse: they&#039;ve &quot;tabled&quot; their plan to move those books offsite: http://library.syr.edu/blog/news/archives/001644.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post. We talked about the Syracuse protest on the most recent episode of the Digital Campus podcast (digitalcampus.tv, episode 48, if you&#8217;re interested). Mills Kelly made the important point that most libraries in Europe have closed stacks, and yet somehow research occurs there. The sentence &#8220;it’s time to recognize browsing the local stacks as a pleasurable, useful activity, rather than a core research strategy&#8221; seems therefore right on target. </p>
<p>That said, I take the point about listening to the users. And so did Syracuse: they&#8217;ve &#8220;tabled&#8221; their plan to move those books offsite: <a href="http://library.syr.edu/blog/news/archives/001644.php" rel="nofollow">http://library.syr.edu/blog/news/archives/001644.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: stevenb</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2009/11/clueless_faculty_and_uppity_librarians.html/comment-page-1#comment-113886</link>
		<dc:creator>stevenb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/?p=18705#comment-113886</guid>
		<description>I found good wisdom in your advice for both faculty and students, especially the suggestion that faculty should make an effort to visit the library and as part of that process - get to know their subject specialist. It&#039;s never been more important to pay attention to the users and their expectations - which have and are changing rapidly - but we can&#039;t forget about those whose needs might not change very much. So for us it&#039;s very much a balancing act. Yet while it&#039;s important to pay attention to what the users want, we should try to innovate by thinking about those things the users might find helpful but which they would never think to ask us for. That&#039;s where observing their work-practice behaviors can be enlightening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found good wisdom in your advice for both faculty and students, especially the suggestion that faculty should make an effort to visit the library and as part of that process &#8211; get to know their subject specialist. It&#8217;s never been more important to pay attention to the users and their expectations &#8211; which have and are changing rapidly &#8211; but we can&#8217;t forget about those whose needs might not change very much. So for us it&#8217;s very much a balancing act. Yet while it&#8217;s important to pay attention to what the users want, we should try to innovate by thinking about those things the users might find helpful but which they would never think to ask us for. That&#8217;s where observing their work-practice behaviors can be enlightening.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivy</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2009/11/clueless_faculty_and_uppity_librarians.html/comment-page-1#comment-113831</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/?p=18705#comment-113831</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think it’s time to recognize browsing the local stacks as a pleasurable, useful activity, rather than a core research strategy.&quot;

I think it entirely depends on the library and its users. Maybe browsing isn&#039;t a core research strategy at general undergraduate libraries, but it certainly is at art schools and arts libraries (often ignored or glossed over in library-land since they are a small minority). There are different kinds of users and one answer is never going to fit all.


That said, I love your idea about interface design that toggles back and forth been visual-based browsing and text. Those are exactly the kinds of flexible tools that could be put to use across many different libraries for many different patrons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think it’s time to recognize browsing the local stacks as a pleasurable, useful activity, rather than a core research strategy.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it entirely depends on the library and its users. Maybe browsing isn&#8217;t a core research strategy at general undergraduate libraries, but it certainly is at art schools and arts libraries (often ignored or glossed over in library-land since they are a small minority). There are different kinds of users and one answer is never going to fit all.</p>
<p>That said, I love your idea about interface design that toggles back and forth been visual-based browsing and text. Those are exactly the kinds of flexible tools that could be put to use across many different libraries for many different patrons.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara Fister</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2009/11/clueless_faculty_and_uppity_librarians.html/comment-page-1#comment-113818</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara Fister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/?p=18705#comment-113818</guid>
		<description>err.... coulda given you &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ala.org/ala//mgrps/divs/acrl/publications/digital/Foster-Gibbons_cmpd.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a link&lt;/a&gt; to that study, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>err&#8230;. coulda given you <a href="http://www.ala.org/ala//mgrps/divs/acrl/publications/digital/Foster-Gibbons_cmpd.pdf" rel="nofollow">a link</a> to that study, I suppose.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara Fister</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2009/11/clueless_faculty_and_uppity_librarians.html/comment-page-1#comment-113817</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara Fister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/?p=18705#comment-113817</guid>
		<description>The Rochester study did that, Cecily - using an ethnographic approach. We&#039;re going to try something like that on a smaller scale in the spring, looking at both our physical library and our website using student researchers. I&#039;m excited about it. 

The kerfuffle over the rudeness of making too many assumptions (on both sides) has been interesting but also quite startling in terms of seeing such a lot of buried hostility surfacing. And how.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Rochester study did that, Cecily &#8211; using an ethnographic approach. We&#8217;re going to try something like that on a smaller scale in the spring, looking at both our physical library and our website using student researchers. I&#8217;m excited about it. </p>
<p>The kerfuffle over the rudeness of making too many assumptions (on both sides) has been interesting but also quite startling in terms of seeing such a lot of buried hostility surfacing. And how.</p>
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		<title>By: Cecily</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2009/11/clueless_faculty_and_uppity_librarians.html/comment-page-1#comment-113812</link>
		<dc:creator>Cecily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/?p=18705#comment-113812</guid>
		<description>Great suggestions for faculty and staff. Rather than just talking to students to see how they work, I&#039;d actually recommend faculty and library staff actually spend time observing how people use the library. If there&#039;s one thing I&#039;ve learned while doing user research is that people will lie. Oh, their intentions are good, but they lie and say what they think you want to hear, even when it doesn&#039;t even remotely resemble how they actually use the product or service. 

Stalk people in the stacks, on the couches, in the common rooms. Where it makes sense, approach them, introduce yourself, and say &quot;I&#039;m doing some research on how people use the library (or resource X). Would it be OK if I just sat here and watched you work for a little while, and occasionally asked you questions?&quot; 

The data you get from this kind of research will probably be richer and more useful than a gazillion surveys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great suggestions for faculty and staff. Rather than just talking to students to see how they work, I&#8217;d actually recommend faculty and library staff actually spend time observing how people use the library. If there&#8217;s one thing I&#8217;ve learned while doing user research is that people will lie. Oh, their intentions are good, but they lie and say what they think you want to hear, even when it doesn&#8217;t even remotely resemble how they actually use the product or service. </p>
<p>Stalk people in the stacks, on the couches, in the common rooms. Where it makes sense, approach them, introduce yourself, and say &#8220;I&#8217;m doing some research on how people use the library (or resource X). Would it be OK if I just sat here and watched you work for a little while, and occasionally asked you questions?&#8221; </p>
<p>The data you get from this kind of research will probably be richer and more useful than a gazillion surveys.</p>
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		<title>By: walt crawford</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2009/11/clueless_faculty_and_uppity_librarians.html/comment-page-1#comment-113809</link>
		<dc:creator>walt crawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/?p=18705#comment-113809</guid>
		<description>&quot;I have misgivings about the truism “the user is not broken,” but let’s think about that for a minute, since it’s a commonplace in library blogland. I think one of the most useful readings of that phrase is that when readers tell us something, we should assume that they are speaking in good faith and that they know what they want.&quot;

That is, to date, the most useful reading I&#039;ve seen of that particular commonplace. Congratulations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I have misgivings about the truism “the user is not broken,” but let’s think about that for a minute, since it’s a commonplace in library blogland. I think one of the most useful readings of that phrase is that when readers tell us something, we should assume that they are speaking in good faith and that they know what they want.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is, to date, the most useful reading I&#8217;ve seen of that particular commonplace. Congratulations.</p>
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