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	<title>Comments on: The Siren Song of the Internet: Part II &#8211; Britannica Blog</title>
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	<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html</link>
	<description>a library weblog by Steve Lawson</description>
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		<title>By: Steve Lawson</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html/comment-page-1#comment-2728</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html#comment-2728</guid>
		<description>Note: Jimmy Wales&#039; comment somehow ended up marked as spam. Glad I checked the filter today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note: Jimmy Wales&#8217; comment somehow ended up marked as spam. Glad I checked the filter today.</p>
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		<title>By: Chadwick</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html/comment-page-1#comment-2720</link>
		<dc:creator>Chadwick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html#comment-2720</guid>
		<description>He would definitely know the meaning of &quot;snide&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He would definitely know the meaning of &#8220;snide&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jessamyn</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html/comment-page-1#comment-2718</link>
		<dc:creator>jessamyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html#comment-2718</guid>
		<description>How do you refute a statement in the New Yorker anyhow?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you refute a statement in the New Yorker anyhow?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Lawson</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html/comment-page-1#comment-2715</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html#comment-2715</guid>
		<description>[Note: I emailed Mr. Gorman to try to verify that this comment really comes from him. As we all know, identity can be hard to verify on the internets. He hasn&#039;t responded. For now, we&#039;ll assume the comment is legit. -SL]

Thanks for stopping by, Mr. Gorman. I suppose it&#039;s an honor to have the man who wrote &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA502009.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;It is entirely possible that [bloggers&#039;] intellectual needs are met by an accumulation of random facts and paragraphs.&lt;/a&gt;&quot; imply that I&#039;m being snide.

Perhaps &quot;misquote&quot; is the right word and perhaps it isn&#039;t (read the quote again, and see what you think: &lt;a href=&quot;http://pages.citebite.com/w1k8t8o0e7ekc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;citebite link&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/07/31/060731fa_fact&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;original New Yorker article&lt;/a&gt;). More the point, it is typical of your style of argumentation, where you don&#039;t  engage with real people and what they really said. Instead you prefer to treat other people as easily-parodied cardboard cut-outs, to whom you can attribute whatever opinions you wish. In short, while you lecture us all on the proper uses of authority and research and the like, when it comes right down to it, you prefer ad hominem attacks and ex cathedra pronouncements to actual reasoned, researched arguments.

There are plenty of perfectly valid critiques that can be made of Google, Wikipedia, etc., if you would just take the time to actually understand what you were talking about first. From reading your opinion pieces, it sounds as if you have never actually used the Internet, but are basing your opinions on things you read in publications like the New Yorker. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Note: I emailed Mr. Gorman to try to verify that this comment really comes from him. As we all know, identity can be hard to verify on the internets. He hasn't responded. For now, we'll assume the comment is legit. -SL]</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by, Mr. Gorman. I suppose it&#8217;s an honor to have the man who wrote &#8220;<a href="http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA502009.html" rel="nofollow">It is entirely possible that [bloggers'] intellectual needs are met by an accumulation of random facts and paragraphs.</a>&#8221; imply that I&#8217;m being snide.</p>
<p>Perhaps &#8220;misquote&#8221; is the right word and perhaps it isn&#8217;t (read the quote again, and see what you think: <a href="http://pages.citebite.com/w1k8t8o0e7ekc" rel="nofollow">citebite link</a>, <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/07/31/060731fa_fact" rel="nofollow">original New Yorker article</a>). More the point, it is typical of your style of argumentation, where you don&#8217;t  engage with real people and what they really said. Instead you prefer to treat other people as easily-parodied cardboard cut-outs, to whom you can attribute whatever opinions you wish. In short, while you lecture us all on the proper uses of authority and research and the like, when it comes right down to it, you prefer ad hominem attacks and ex cathedra pronouncements to actual reasoned, researched arguments.</p>
<p>There are plenty of perfectly valid critiques that can be made of Google, Wikipedia, etc., if you would just take the time to actually understand what you were talking about first. From reading your opinion pieces, it sounds as if you have never actually used the Internet, but are basing your opinions on things you read in publications like the New Yorker.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Lawson</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html/comment-page-1#comment-2700</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 04:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html#comment-2700</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Seth. As I said in my comment on your site, I think you are getting to the real problem of how to read a statement like &quot;If you can&#039;t Google it, it doesn&#039;t exist.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Seth. As I said in my comment on your site, I think you are getting to the real problem of how to read a statement like &#8220;If you can&#8217;t Google it, it doesn&#8217;t exist.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html/comment-page-1#comment-2699</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 04:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html#comment-2699</guid>
		<description>I found the actual speech transcripts.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/archives/001217.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Google :1 Michael Gorman: 0&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found the actual speech transcripts.</p>
<p><a href="http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/archives/001217.html" rel="nofollow">Google :1 Michael Gorman: 0</a></p>
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		<title>By: david lee king</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html/comment-page-1#comment-2698</link>
		<dc:creator>david lee king</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html#comment-2698</guid>
		<description>Hmm... &quot;misquotation: an incorrect quotation&quot; (define:misquote in google). Interestingly enough, if Gorman had fact-checked with The Wales article in Wikipedia, he might have questioned the quote (Wales is quoted there as saying he trusts google like he trusts a politician).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230; &#8220;misquotation: an incorrect quotation&#8221; (define:misquote in google). Interestingly enough, if Gorman had fact-checked with The Wales article in Wikipedia, he might have questioned the quote (Wales is quoted there as saying he trusts google like he trusts a politician).</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Wales</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html/comment-page-1#comment-2697</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Wales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 02:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html#comment-2697</guid>
		<description>I concur with Prof. Gorman here.  He did not misquote me, he was misled by a short report that did not give the full context.  But when I gave him the full context, he immediately apologized.

I am unsure why he now says that the statement in the New Yorker is &quot;unrefuted&quot;.  There is no issue of refutation here at all.  The New Yorker said that I cite the statement frequently, and of course I do... but left out the context of my full discussion of the issue.

There are many examples of me joking about this test, and discussing the proper approach to using evidence from Google, in many speeches and talks, and of course the evidence of the actual discussion of the concept in Wikipedia itself is open for anyone to review.

And a serious review of it reveals quite quickly that neither my position, nor that of Wikipedia, can be reasonably characterized as evidencing anything like the absurd belief that if something is not in Wikipedia, it doesn&#039;t exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I concur with Prof. Gorman here.  He did not misquote me, he was misled by a short report that did not give the full context.  But when I gave him the full context, he immediately apologized.</p>
<p>I am unsure why he now says that the statement in the New Yorker is &#8220;unrefuted&#8221;.  There is no issue of refutation here at all.  The New Yorker said that I cite the statement frequently, and of course I do&#8230; but left out the context of my full discussion of the issue.</p>
<p>There are many examples of me joking about this test, and discussing the proper approach to using evidence from Google, in many speeches and talks, and of course the evidence of the actual discussion of the concept in Wikipedia itself is open for anyone to review.</p>
<p>And a serious review of it reveals quite quickly that neither my position, nor that of Wikipedia, can be reasonably characterized as evidencing anything like the absurd belief that if something is not in Wikipedia, it doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Gorman</title>
		<link>http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html/comment-page-1#comment-2695</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Gorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelawson.name/seealso/archives/2007/06/the_siren_song_of_the_internet_part_ii_-_britannica_blog.html#comment-2695</guid>
		<description>Dear Mr. Lawson

I did not &quot;misquote&quot; Mr. Wales.  I read that he had said those words in public speeches in the New Yorker article.  It&#039;s probably counter to the snide ethic of blogs, but I chose to accept his statement that, despite the unrefuted statement in the New Yorker, he had not said and did not believe those words.

Michael Gorman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Lawson</p>
<p>I did not &#8220;misquote&#8221; Mr. Wales.  I read that he had said those words in public speeches in the New Yorker article.  It&#8217;s probably counter to the snide ethic of blogs, but I chose to accept his statement that, despite the unrefuted statement in the New Yorker, he had not said and did not believe those words.</p>
<p>Michael Gorman</p>
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